Kills cringe reagent healing

[Lumipharon]

About The Pull Request

What is says on the tin.

Why It's Good For The Game

Gamer reagents that boost healing while avoiding chem stacking penalties and having no OD limits exist purely to enable powergaming.

Changelog

🆑
balance: Removed healing from non medical reagents
/:cl:

[revelation-8468]

Sit down marine players, campaign coder is talking

[Rug-Dealer]

leave the doctor's delight out of this it did nothing wrong

[ZahaSanko]

zzzz pr that's just against any fun medic can have in game for "powergaming reason"

[fleewave]

35% marine winrate time to nerf niche healing chems true

[ilikesaying]

i thought the Kidney chem overload pr made ages ago already dealt with this sort of thing, why not make that one worse instead

[TChalkman]

Post this to scare PR people
Just merge the kidney pr but with all those "le bad" chems, you are gonna remove any skill ceiling/expression from medics, people already dont play medic often let them have fun for once

[Mantlecrawler]

all apart of my grand plan...

[Apple-107]

Sit down marine players, campaign coder is talking

Ive been civil about this in the past but if we're just removing everything because <5 marines find use out of it then lets just delete the codebase and replace it with CM

[OmegaDarkPotato]

Doc's delight at least has a downside (iirc) of draining nutrition which in turn enhances the logistics aspect of the game (ppl need more food, meaning more interaction / demand on the RO)

[UncleBourbon]

The fact a perfectly balanced healing chem with an apparent downside is being gutted because some niche interaction with milk actually undoing the hunger drain doctors delight is supposed to do is silly. Why not just remove the milk interaction? DD functions fine when you need to chew on your MRE/food bar constantly.

[Lumipharon]

All these unhinged takes.

If we wanted marines to have better healing, we'd just buff normal healing chems. 1% of players that both know about these reagents, and actually can be bothered spending the time preparing them having a significant healing advantage over everyone else is bad for balance, encourages tedious chem prep, and has no skill involved what so ever.

The fact a perfectly balanced healing chem with an apparent downside is being gutted because some niche interaction with milk actually undoing the hunger drain doctors delight is supposed to do is silly. Why not just remove the milk interaction? DD functions fine when you need to chew on your MRE/food bar constantly.

Literally EVERY SINGLE CONSUMABLE REAGENT IN THE GAME can counteract DD's nutriment loss. Most give you far more nutriment than DD removes. There is no downside to DD unless you ONLY use DD, and there is no downside to using every reagent possible.

Why do you think the game is better where some players just have a straight mechanical advantage over others because they wasted an extra 10 minutes of prep preparing some gamer mix of extra reagents?

[yyzsong]

skill ceiling

skill ceiling (obscure chem knowledge + 5 minutes clicking buttons in prep)

[PowerHedgehog]

If you are removing healing for doctor's delight, update its description too.

[UncleBourbon]

i use DD with BKTT and i still get hunger moodles, so it still works as intended somewhat. I dont know about these "gamer" combinations that counter DD's hunger mechanic entirely. Why not just buff the hunger rate then of DD so this doesnt happen?

And for it being an obscure chem, yea i guess players dont read the chem wiki and see its existence. Why dont we just put bottles of it in chem then? Valhalla literally has DD bottles in them to vend we can just put them in there. There is no reason to remove a additional way to heal that adds another resource for you to juggle. Just make it harder to juggle. Instead of backspacing everything about it just make the nutrition drain number bigger.

[UncleBourbon]

[CaputCapital]

All these unhinged takes.

If we wanted marines to have better healing, we'd just buff normal healing chems. 1% of players that both know about these reagents, and actually can be bothered spending the time preparing them having a significant healing advantage over everyone else is bad for balance, encourages tedious chem prep, and has no skill involved what so ever.

The fact a perfectly balanced healing chem with an apparent downside is being gutted because some niche interaction with milk actually undoing the hunger drain doctors delight is supposed to do is silly. Why not just remove the milk interaction? DD functions fine when you need to chew on your MRE/food bar constantly.

Literally EVERY SINGLE CONSUMABLE REAGENT IN THE GAME can counteract DD's nutriment loss. Most give you far more nutriment than DD removes. There is no downside to DD unless you ONLY use DD, and there is no downside to using every reagent possible.

Why do you think the game is better where some players just have a straight mechanical advantage over others because they wasted an extra 10 minutes of prep preparing some gamer mix of extra reagents?

"unhinged takes"

"Kills cringe reagent healing"

"Kills healing on cringe powergamer reagents"

The insufferable and cringe complaints about "powergaming" are real and I thought this was TGMC, not CM.

With 22 thumbs downs (yours included) and counting, you clearly hate the marine mains with that response, it's blatant, and you knew for a fact that majority wouldn't like this. When you mention "we'd buff normal healing chems" you're just saying that knowing the chances of Kuro allowing this are very unlikely. Having a significant healing advantage over everyone else is bad for balance? You're wording this like it's in the context of an instance of HVH or your in-dev campaign mode. Marines are supposed to work together to fight xenos and hostile ERTs, yes there is going to be players who have been there longer than others and so they'll have their own tips and tricks to fit into their play style. How is this "significant healing advantage" a bad thing for a faction that is cooperating together against one that is mob-based?

You complain about how "every single consumable reagent in the game" counteract's DD's nutriment loss? Well so do protein bars by a longshot as you said and we get those in belts and pouches, they can even be easily fit into satchels and backpacks. Just because somebody opts for a different method of nutriment intake or a slight edge up in healing, doesn't mean you should kill the positive components of those reagents. Let the veteran marine statics keep their secrets and special methods. If you want to add said reagents to the stack limit or OD limits be my guest. I don't know how the rest of the player base would respond, but I doubt you would get as much backlash with that compared to where you're taking this now.

Doctor's Delight only heals about 0.5 per tick for every damage type except clone loss. Again if you have such a problem with these reagents alone, just add them to the chem stack limit and give it an OD limit instead of relying on petty removal of reagent benefits from the code. Citing the majority's takes as "unhinged" just because they don't agree with this PR alone is vitriolic and downright ridiculous.

[CaputCapital]

Sit down marine players, campaign coder is talking

Ive been civil about this in the past but if we're just removing everything because <5 marines find use out of it then lets just delete the codebase and replace it with CM

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest, considering that:

They removed aimmode from most weapons, deincentivizing focus order's usefulness (thanks Lumi)
They removed straps on deployable shields (thanks Ivanmixo and Lumi)
They nerfed the usefulness of snipers (thanks Ivanmixo)
They removed pistol seasonals (thanks Lumi)
They removed shoulder firing (thanks Kuro)
They removed scopes on laser weapons (thanks Kuro)

This is a cabal that wants to dictate how YOU the marine main should play the game. Over the course of a few months, it has been demonstrated that marine teamwork and creativity is not rewarded in HVX. It's instead punished heavily and it's very clear that the c*ders want that, they'll even taunt you in PRs for questioning it, it's gotten petty.

[CRITAWAKETS]

to be honest while the strategy not being told anywhere is super obtuse and it probably should be axed for that, the resulting plays from this existing should really be kept in other ways. the issue with chemstacking like this is that you end up filling up your reagent dispenser of choice with a lot of small amounts of chemicals that are relatively weak, so you end up having to inject more of a mix that takes a damn while to get and is hard to resupply on.

The strategy found for that was healing foam in order to make the chemicals be more bang for their buck. The healing foam strat is fun, it makes marines have to think a bit more about positioning and actually have to cooperate with their corpsman by staying close for a heal. If the healing on these reagents is axed, there should totally be something to "officialize" healing foam strategies in return.

[ilikesaying]

quite the ratio of thumbs

[ButterChugger]

0.5 damage per tick is too high

Absolute Skill issue.

[FunkyMonke47]

Just like shoulder fire died for the sins of weapons that got shoulder fire when they never even had aim mode in the first place, doctors delight shall die for the sins of a bunch of random liquids

[tttruancy]

Please let the marines have their soymilk premed.. they get angry without it...

[nervere]

Why is the first instinct to remove content rather than adjusting the systems that allow for abuse?
Why not try something different, like adding a limit to the volume of reagents any human can process at a time, or something similar? Removal is the most ham-fisted, antagonizing way to balance something. I am not saying that was your intention, of course, but it is the result.

[DrAmazing343]

.5 damage per tick be so for real bro

[tttruancy]

mfs will bathe in a lime lemon soy tomato slurry to heal but won't pack bandages and ointment

[Isy232]

I'd agree, kill these.
If we wanted more basic medicines, they'd be added to marine vendors and easily obtainable in prep, not weird prep optimizations.

Perhaps rework these into some line of 'obsolete' healing chemicals available in vendors with significant side effects to have tradeoffs.
However the implementation of a rework shouldn't be required for this pr.

[Isy232]

More on the whole 'optimal' argument.
Some players will add these chemicals to their giga healing mixes so long as they have utility.
It will become 'meta' to do this prep, giving some advantage to certain players willing to spend the time doing so.
The balance of the round may be affected by these advantages.

Don't let the 'optimal' strategy become mindless boring prep whenever possible, even for something more niche.
The boring aspects of prep time should be cut as much as possible.

[jwkDT]

daaamn you guys remember when we could fill BKTT with oxycodone for free? those were the days sip

[jwkDT]

Sit down marine players, campaign coder is talking

Ive been civil about this in the past but if we're just removing everything because <5 marines find use out of it then lets just delete the codebase and replace it with CM

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest, considering that:

They removed aimmode from most weapons, deincentivizing focus order's usefulness (thanks Lumi) They removed straps on deployable shields (thanks Ivanmixo and Lumi) They nerfed the usefulness of snipers (thanks Ivanmixo) They removed pistol seasonals (thanks Lumi) They removed shoulder firing (thanks Kuro) They removed scopes on laser weapons (thanks Kuro)

This is a cabal that wants to dictate how YOU the marine main should play the game. Over the course of a few months, it has been demonstrated that marine teamwork and creativity is not rewarded in HVX. It's instead punished heavily and it's very clear that the c*ders want that, they'll even taunt you in PRs for questioning it, it's gotten petty.

they will merge whatever they want because they know we can't do anything about it

[tttruancy]

I don't think reagant gaming during prep should be totally removed but it should be moved into the proper system (botany)

[iforgotmeword]

Well this got merged btw isn't the downside of reagent healing being the massive dose? Like unless your dosing your self with 3 pills the reagents won't last in your system

Your giving up like 60% of your chem for 1 extra unit of healing